The question is "how to set a wifi access point ?". Then putting all Slitaz packages and Isos on a computer is not a problem : basically it's the same thing than a mirror server. Add few scripts to easily choose version and flavor with the possibility of taking all the packages/receipts/sources and burn that or put it on a usb disk.

I work on a tool wich can help for the second part of the job, but I don't know how to set an AP.

Also note that the distro station had to download large amount of datas for everyone. I don't know how much precisely. Using only stable can reduce that significatively, as there's currently 1.5 Gb of packages and there's just few updates over the year. Cooking may use much more bandwidth.

You said it... How to set up a access point. But to be clear... If you have a access point in hardware, its a different story, rather than changing the built in Wlan in your laptop, from being a client to becoming a server.

What i have noticed is that Slitaz, unlike any other distro is really perfect for this. The developers team have made something fantastic and that's the cooking version now comes also with a DVD that does not only hold the packages, but also all the third party software. It's like... With Slitaz cooking no one is left behind.

With this, Slitaz is complete in the sense of being the most Africa friendly Linux distro there is.

Lets say for this idea the cooking version is the thing. Lets say that a DVD is the target, as most laptops and computers that has Wlan, also has DVD.

A DVD that boots up as a AP, where the Slitaz you offer for download in some way is connected to the AP package repository? I must admit I have every single file offered in the 3.0 family, but even after standing on my hands, I cant get to install a single package from the DVD or make it my repository. That is using "setup-mirror" or doing whatever.

Anyhow, its a personal problem and I can live with it.

I am very open for non technical input here, like how can it become trendy in Africa to operate your local "Push Station"? Can there be other things involved here?

Looking at the concept of SlitazJoomla, I can see many nice issues like local chat(video) on your network, streaming of music, video what what?

Please pump out some ideas, as I am ready to put them out live here in Dar Es Salaam, and provide feedback on how it goes.

Linux is loosing in Africa, due to lack of knowledge mostly. Its simply not known and if known damn expensive to download.

If this was done clever and could be trendy or something, it could change that. At least a bit. bit by bit...

Maybe I can help for this : I can release a script wich daily download new packages and create a DVD iso with them inside. Personnaly I find that the DVD method is good for 3.0 because packages are not often updated, but with cooking you need to re-write the DVD every weeks if you want to keep it up to date : it's not the best way in my opinion. A better solution will be to store the repos in a USB key or in a HDD, and having a script wich update the repos using the access point.

Actually, on the DVD iso in Slitaz mirror, there's a script (install.sh if I'm right) wich can be used to link all packages in order to use them instead of web repo.

If you have an access point, I think you can serve what you want with : repositories, website, music, videos, chat, forum, etc...

I might be able to convince the University Of Dar Es Salaam to host such a brilliant solution, but I do fear that most others might be paying pr mb of these downloads.

The reason I been sniffing at the cooking is the fact that it now also comes with those packages that most people REALLY wants and that's those that are not on the 3.0 CD.

I agree that cooking is often changed and so forth, but yet to me the most important is to make a good first impression. Time is not running that fast here in Africa and I have a feeling that most of distributed Slitaz OS will be popular due to Open Office, that is a killer app, and might not even see internet for some time, due to this being a low end solution for the ones with a wish to refurnish and old computer or simply get started with computing, having a lower cost on hardware purchase.

I shall try out the install script and see what comes out of it.

I agree. Most people have built in Wlan in their laptop and if a live CD could enable that just out of the box, to be a AP, with a running server and all... thats what makes i to become a sustainable project in the poor part for the world.

I am supposed to be very rich here, from Europe and all this, but to me buying a AP is very far from realistic. Having a internet connection that is not payed pr mb, is even more far fetch. That is for the ones that are rich. With many years experience with humans, I doubt very much that any rich person will start to share, even if its free software.

hostapd (http://hostap.epitest.fi/hostapd/), is a user space daemon for access point. It implements IEEE 802.11 access point management and authentification for Linux.

So, you do not need a dedicated AP, just a supported wireless card, hostapd and you're done.

Thanks Domcox. It sounds like its so easy when you say it. I am sorry to say, that at least speaking for my self, I am very far from being able to utilize that technology and also my ability to understand what networks cards that actually are supported, as not explained in Greek, but in pure english(Brand and type).

I am sorry, but for me, I am not any further as this is not a live CD and and its not a out of the box solutions, but something for terminal rockettscientists.

So the "your done" is to me like opposite:-)

Atle, your idea is not insane, but ... just brilliant.

I just wanted to add that you don't need additional and expensive hardware as the hostapd daemon implements a full AP for linux.

I'm far from beeing a 'rocketscientist' :) but I think your idea of a jumping SliTaz is not difficult to materialize once we have hostapd packaged in SliTaz.

I agree... You motive me to just stand up for the idea and visit the University of Dar Es Salaam computer something office in the city center and see if we can make a trial even if a AP is used in hardware... Just to trim the content offered and get some feedback. All i need is a old computer and a AP.

But of course they would fall of the chairs if i showed them a working live CD with the above mentioned technology...

Thanks Domcox...

As said, as done. I visited University of Dar Es Salaam Computer Center in central Dar and meet a very pro FOSS management with Ubuntu stickers all over the laptop..

Anyhow, we agreed to put up a trial version at the computer center, whereas he said they can chip in a Dell laptop or a old stationary PC. As we don't have the Live Jumping CD, we are thinking about getting AP to start with.

This will be tested and measured and reported to some website. It can be schoolux, but I am open for other options.

So the idea is to promote Slitaz, have all the files including the repo available.

I remember the first Slitaz that came. I was in Africa and sick and tired of getting more and more OS that was "in the cloud". That cloud is only costs and problems here. Then came Slitaz and all worked right out of the box including video.

This is what is needed here to. It can not be a success, unless it "just works" as this is completely from mars to most people and the distro should have a preset path to pick up programs from the AP, and not the internet.

These are small challenges.

So there are 3 tasks, where one is to make a Dell laptop act as a AP, the second is for me to get a AP, and the third is to set up the server and configure a African Flavour.

The webserver must be Joomla as i know nothing about others.

Atle

Really a great project. I will help as I can.

I am open for any suggestion on how to organize this here on the net, and also creative ideas and suggestions of what to offer on the first Jumping Slitaz, even if a bit fake using a hardware AP, in lack of the real McCoy.

Once I get my PC fixed and Slitaz stable up and running, I'll install cooking on another partition and be glad to help you.

I just add hostapd in the cooking repository (without madwifi driver) :
http://hg.slitaz.org/wok/rev/f4ab8a128b6f

I can't test it because I've only one laptop with wireless card at home. If someone can check that all works fine it would be great.

Will this work with both stable and cooking? I have problems getting loramCD stable into this and other machines. Shall try new download and burn at low low speed. By the way do i now have a hardware AP, a D-link DSL something, a xDSL modem with like 4 router ports and one antenna. I hope it will work for the project.

That is up to the time the hostapd is functioning.

I encourage the one that makes a flavor out of this to make it LoramCd, as that is a fantastic concept for the third world(and my laptop has 128mb ram).

For me, as that dude down here in the field I dream of three versions:

A) LoramCD with Hostapd and support for most Wlan cards and out of the box

B) LoramCD with Joomla preinstalled* using SQLlite or whatever it takes(the less ram consuming the better)

C) Loram CD with Hostapd and the joomla preinstalled

Having these three versions I think I can do some serious work, serious impression and getting some serious results. To be continued.....

(continued)

* The preinstalled Joomla on Slitaz can be downloaded from her thanks to Deadwait:
http://www.in2dwok.com/downloads/ (made in 2008, so not 3.0)


I must admit I have failed over and over again with this and even installing LoramCD on two computers. I shall try new download and a slow burn. If one has two computers, it should be possible to test this and even get the settings right in the server and client as it comes to installing software and doing upgrades.

Apart from the usual stuff like being able to open Word documents and those things, note some specials Africa stuff:

Anti-virus in a live CD WITH the database updated can mean work for many

Africa is far away from the cloud. Anything that is "cloud" is dead

Internet comes by modem as in GSM, CDMA and not ethernet(some Wlan)

I am just trying to give some leads on whats hot and whats not. Like the dialup script in latest Puppy Linux would really rock the boat. I use that my self and could not get on the net without on my low end hardware. Its like unbelievable.

I really hope to get comments and/ or questions as its a terrible exiting project to me. I am all ears....

Hi,

I hope someone can help to configure the AP, because it's the first thing to do. Then I will build a flavor with some tools to maintain the local repository up-to-date with this configuration. Then we can use this flavor for testing and improve the content.

@Atle : maybe having only one CD with several boot-options can be better. I don't know exactly what is the better technique for that with loram, I will test some possibility later. It is possible to pre-intall some applications : put them on a little repository on the CD-ROM and link them system to them if necessary. Note that adding applications directly in the live system have not the same consequence if using loram-cdrom : in this case the largest part of the package is readed from the cd and is not loaded in ram. If using classic live or loram live, adding packages can means use too much RAM.

The HostApd and joomla is a must to provide the intended service, be it by using a real AP or hostAPD(i assume "real" AP has more power to transmit). A pure LoramCD with a preinstalled and running from boot, Joomla is a BIG wish for the Schoolux project, but rumors about a new cooking makes it tempting to think that as the platform, as there is no real system for third part applications in 3.0.

Cooking or Slitaz 4.0, when it comes, is the most third world friendly distro or linux concept on this planet, with its DVD with website, and this time ALL programs for offline installing, loram, 3in1, floppys and what what:-)

@Gokhlayeh If what i heard was right, that there is a new release of Cooking just around the corner, is it an idea to jump straight to that?

The cooking has the complete repository and will as far as I can see, provide us with more results and users as we offer a more "kick ass" solution?

It might be a little bit buggy, but so will probably Schoolux and "Jumping Slitaz" be in the beginning as it also needs time to mature.

I feel its key to offer such programs as Skype and whatever is 3 party software.

One of the issues if I am not wrong, is that if they are to pick up software from "Jumping Linux", then that must be specified in Tazpkg? And that will need reconfiguration if internet is being used as source? Changing that can be nothing to many, and hell for others. especially if unskilled and used to windows.

I have never succeeded in dealing with tazpkg in 3.0 and dont even understand the logic's behind all of the functionality of tazpkg gui. I been under the impression that its not really working, but are very open for being to much of a novice to handle it.

Yet that tells me that if there is no need to "tazpkg", just come to City Center of Dar and download and install for free, it will be more users and more success.

"Where you pay pr mb getting robbed by mobile internet operators that never drops their prices" - I just would like to add some ideas - to set up a mesh network is not expensive and can cover very big areas. Powerconsumtion is only about 5 -9W - easy to be solar powered.

Here some links:

https://www.open-mesh.com/store/products.php?product=Open%252dMesh-Mini-Router-without-Power-Supply
https://www.open-mesh.com/store/products.php?product=Open%252dMesh-Mini%252dRouter
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Open-Mesh-Picks-Up-Where-Meraki-Left-Off-92532
http://owl.ece.mcmaster.ca/~todd/SolarMESH/

you can use also evry openwrt router:

http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/oldwiki/OlsrMeshHowto

here some working mash Networks

http://sarwiki.informatik.hu-berlin.de/BerlinRoofNet
http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/roofnet/doku.php

as server in the system:

Seagate dockstar - http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-FreeAgent-DockStar-Network-STDSA10G-RK/dp/B002MRRU6G

but on ebay you get it sometimes for 10 $ (I bought mine for 20€) - only 3W (without harddisk) - here is how-to brick it: http://ahsoftware.de/dockstar/ and I hope there is a arm slitaz-version soon.

I am not going to buy anything that is not related to the Schoolux or Jumping Linux project, so i guess its out of the question. Anyhow I can not really see any relevance apart from Jumping Schoolux being a project and so is Mesh Networks.

@domcox: are you able to write the configuration for hostapd ?

@Gokhlayeh & Domcox

What is your opinion on the use of Slitaz Cooking for this project? I can say a with certainty that with the cooking package DVD, it will rock the boat, more than 3.0 as it has third part programs, that are also the most wanted programs for the masses.

There is a hostap mailing list where there are some daily activity.

HostAP mailing list
HostAP@lists.shmoo.com
http://lists.shmoo.com/mailman/listinfo/hostap

About using cooking :

I think that we can setup Jumping Slitaz to download 3.0 and cooking and give the choice in the website. 3.0 don't have a lot of new packages, so next it will cost a very little bandwitdh to keep it syncked with the online repo.

Cooking is more up to date but the users can experience breakage in the system. It's a problem because it's not what do we want. A solution can be : make a snapshot of the cooking repo when the next cooking will be released, and keep it unchanged then. So in the AP disk we have :

3.0
cooking-snapshot
cooking

And if cooking broke, everybody have a solution to keep a fonctionnal system. I think that we can explain that this Jumping Slitaz is in test and will be better functionnal when the 4.0 will be released with more stable packages and a well tested AP.

What do you think of that, is it possible ?

That sounds more than great. Still keeping something in sync must be an option and not an obligation. The majority off potential users here is paying trough their noose pr mb for internet, and setting up Slitaz with USB GPRS/3G and/ or CDMA is not like a walk in the park(seen from my newbee level).

Just a question with cooking snapshot? I see that the Slitaz 3.0 had like two or three Cooking releases? Does Snapshot mean like downloading a lot every day?

What about the usage of LoramCD? Does that sound ok, or is it like when hostAP works, it works with all the flavours?

I have now all the gear to set up things and will present a list of hardware present and available for the project in Dar Es Salaam. I also have some money if there are some stuff that can make things really optimal.

Atle

Hi Atle,

About snapshot : the cooking liveCD released during 3.0 development are generation of the liveCD make when all run fine in cooking. The team will make a new one when it will be possible. Here I talk of a snapshot of a repo. Basically : you have 3.0 and cooking syncked with the online repo on you're AP, and you make a copy of cooking at a given time : you have a snapshot. Then the snapshot is not up to date and it ensure that it will not broke.

about the flavours : If hostpad is correctly configured, it will work with all the flavours. We must take care of keeping things small anyway.

about creating the iso : I think that the better way is : the AP sync the packages, if there's some packages of a flavor are updating, it cook the iso instead of downloading it. At each update, it cook the DVD. It will save a lot of bandwidth.

I'm actually working in the tools for : keep repo syncked, make snapshot, auto-cook iso, generating some html pages to give info about the stuff in the AP repo.

I will test the joomla iso and see if I can make a package get-joomla with some pre-configuration. It seems possible. There's also SPIP wich works fine.

Ok. I get the big picture even if some details are greek to me. So what I will do is to push things down here as its going a bit slow on the local cooperation.

The above text makes things a LOT more clear to me and if I am not wrong I can start to FTP down the large DVD for Cooking or should i wait? I am gearing up with dual internet access:-)

In fact you don't need the DVD : you need the repository. With this you will be able to generate the DVD and the different flavors. The DVD also contain the source code used to generate package : I don't know if you want to download this or not. It can be usefull in the case someone want to improve SliTaz receipts, but making a relay to reach the central repo is an other step of complexity... So maybe we can keep this for later.

You can download/update the repository using rsync : rsync -r -t -p -o -g --progress --delete --timeout=60 -l -H rsync://mirror.slitaz.org/slitaz/packages/cooking ADRESS_OF_THE_DOWNLOAD_DIRECTORY

I will release an alpha version of my work as soon I can, but things are actually too unstable for this : I'm am re-writing hudge part of the scripts and some functions are missing.

Then I will build an iso with automatical repository update served with the website. Soon, all will be ready for tests except the hostapd configuration.

This realy is a brilliant idea. Forget about the updating side of things for now. I'm guessing that mailing a DVD is cheaper than DLoading it. Puppy Linux had/has a system where a DVD is updated with the persons configuration and used next boot.
With a system like that I boot from the DVD configure my computers wireless and add any other files I want to be made available save it and reboot nearly instant wireless access point fileserver Brillant !
I want one Make it installable as well. I use Slitaz 2.? as a file server this would be one BIG step better.

Auda
In New Zealand mobile data costs
$1.00 for the first 10 MB, then $1.00 per MB or $1 per 10MB
depending on what you buy for a start.

@Auda : "Puppy Linux had/has a system where a DVD is updated with the persons configuration and used next boot."

How does it work ? Is it works with DVD-RW or multisession DVD-R ?

If mailing a DVD is cheaper, it can be a good solution; then keeping the AP up to date will be necessary anyway.

See here: http://www.puppylinux.com/multi-puppy.htm
I used to like puppy till the bickering and back stabing became more important than fixing bugs. I still use ver 109 from 3 or 4 years ago good and solid mostly
I have been using Slitaz as a server for a couple of years and I'm now looking at Slitaz for our desktops and EeePCs.
Auda

@Auda... We dont need to send things pr mail. I have 3 different internet connections now and there is no way i can fail on this:-)

Got HSDPA/3G, whereas I get 10mb at 28 USD cent/ or most expensive a dollar
Got CDMA EVDO where I pay 7 dollar for 2 gig of data pr week.
Got Wireless internet(meraki) for 28 dollar 256kps 30 days
(stability is so so on all three services)

So I say..... files... just bring them on...

That's a great concept. It will works well with SliTaz (30Mb... A lot of space is avaible...). I guess that we can also use this space to save update live system etc...

@Atle and @Auda - I did not want to force you to buy something - I just wanted to say, that the price of mobile Internet depends on alternatives - in Austria, Switzerland and Germiany, there is a long (at least 8 years) tradition of private and government open Wlan projects - most based on roofnet - you will find on evry corner a free Wlan spot.
So the price of mobile Internet is very cheap, because nobody would buy anything - I pay in Austria for HSDPA/3G - 4 € for 1 Gig / 1 Month - no time limit. In Switzerland and Germany its about 10 € for some kind of the same package.
In France, there is no tratition of free wlan - and the prices are like yours - thats the only thing I wanted to say......

The Jumping Linux does not provide internet access. It does not plan to do it. It simulates a fragment, but yet VERY handy part of internet via a broadcast local wireless network.

The success, shall come if private users can achieve something by using their wlan resource for Jumping Slitaz, such as credibility, respect, friends, work, social network, trade of whatever and off course the classical, getting laid:-)

The combination of offering what i think will be seen as shocking cool Operating Systems and a touch of social networking for your local network, as chat, guestbook and other web like experiences.

So i guess among a fee other things I should get started on a example of such webserver. I wish my self good luck...

I think I have misunderstood what you are wanting to do. I was thinking that you were going to have a computer sitting there and anyone could connect to it and Dload Slitaz and get new packages fron your DVD when they wanted to.

To do this I figured that you would need a basic web server like Thttpd ( http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/ ) and a FTP server or perhaps Samba ( http://www.samba.org/ ). That could all run in ram and only access the DVD when actually needed. saving power and wear on the drive.

I used Freesco ( http://www.freesco.info/ ) for many years as a file server with Samba. My need to have files bigger that 2GB was my only reason to change, to in the end, Slitaz.

Actually when I think about it Freesco will do that as long as you use a seperate accesspoint like a WRT54Gx as it doesn't support USB or many ( if any ) internal wifi cards. I think some PCMCIA ones work. I haven't tried any.

However if you want a mini intranet where people can use skype ( dont know if that is possable without the internet ) and chat to each other then that will need a some what bigger setup. Freesco does haved an email package and maybe an instant message server package. The Freesco forum was extremly active a couple of years ago. Looking in some of the old forum posts will give you some good leads.

I'll have a look over the weekend if I get time to see what can be done.

Range wise the power of you card is not that important. The antenna is. No mater how much power you have the other person has to send data back, a good antenna will suck in their weak signal.

"Anti-virus in a live CD" This has always puzzled me why does a linux computer need anti virus ? To the best of my knowledge the only Linux virus was a proof of concept that would run on a deliberatly misconfigured machine in a lab. Why not push the We dont get viruses because we run Linux ?

Auda

@Auda. Thanks for your advice. The antivirus is because they can help others with windows. Thats and mailservers are the main reason for antivirus in Linux.

S' ahead (ooops!)

S' ahead (ooops!)

Hi all.

I find SliTaz 3.0 to be a real tiny piece of art and I'm very curious about 4.0. As a PuppyLinux fan I have an eye for such things. I even dare to say a combination between the base SliTaz with the ".sfs"/".4fs" mechanism of Puppy (until 431 Ver' B-E-F-O-R-E Lucid) can be very useful in some implementations such as packaging and dealing with flash media (such as mobile's SD media) properly.

Regarding Africa (and probably not only Africa), two understandings:
--------------------------------------------------------------

1. Since Africa (and not only... ) is flooded with handy cellphones more than with PCs and a big part of users do not use their own PCs but do hold cellphones -

- to use cellphones' SDs' as the SliTaz init' app' for PC instead of CDs or HD or DOKs. For now it's easy on cellphones with "mass storage device = on" but with older others - a script should refer to that obstacle on legacy 2.5G cellphones.

Applying this to real life: a user connects through 'local robber' and downloads a SliTaz tiny app' of few Mb right to root of SD (/mnt/sdX/SliTaz). Through this he can connect to nearby PC via USB cable or BT or infra-red to 'wakey wakey' any PC he meets and work with it fast and clean.

Some of packages should be opened immediately without 'package-dolorosa'. Netsurf will be installed by a menu-click in seconds, however heavier Chromium should notify user it takes his time and money. When shutdown - all of it deleted as RAM wiped out but some new settings kept on cellphone's SD if user wishes to for next bootups.

2. In some cases the system should have "automated proxies" if it 'sees' the user stops to read or write it will disconnect and renue it as user pushes ahead. The preferences on such tool should have recommended settings to each 'African robberetype'. I'm confident when a wave of Africans will use the SliTaz apps from their cellphones - they will go and define profiles to ease their communities ...

... Oh, com'on ! there is a limit for how much we can patronizely-spare them fish and they won't lay a finger for themselves. Think of that too. Just ... open the door for them and U can get your voucher to Heaven peacefully.


Regarding everyone:
--------------------------------------------------------------

I'd like to see SliTaz addind a native BIOS/EFI. In that case no BIOS mess-around needed. Just plug USB-cable or place cellphone nearby a BT laptop, or infra-red, push a button or touch at cellphone in front of some PC console - and it will 'know' to take the role for current bootup session (not to step on PC BIOS itself). See steps toward at www.plop.at and 'Usbflash' tool in PuppyLinux. Also see discussion I opened in the forum at:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=36098

Probably some spooky guys think of this 'mission impossible' as well.


Thanks for the place to comment.

You know Potchan... Linux is like Santa Claus or Cristemas eve, all year long... That is... for thoose that can access it. I many parts of the world, this it not the case. So providing the files here is not like giving them fish or anything. Its more like giving an equal chance to enjoy the better part of computing... for free... just all of those with access to information and internet/computers can do....

If you can resolve the challenge of bypassing the BIOS its really great as that is the only issue for me that requires some papers added to any live CD, or call it instructions. Press F2 when you press the start button etc.

The day this becomes impossible, is the day you give up...

Hi,

I don't have so much time to work on this project. I just want to say that I keep it in mind and always intend to make a demo iso of this concept.

Hi Atle,

Got Ya'. It's a nice way to put it. Cheers & a happy Chanukah every day, though I have only 44 candles in a box to work with, and not much more than eight days in a year to make it real. When it comes, it's gonna be a miracle as well.

Meantime I temporarily abandon Linux (i.e. stay only as a user) in favor of more self-studying the mobile application field & I believe enlightenment will pop-up during a bath or something detached like that. It always does this way for me.

OOOPS again, a mistaken error message made me click it twice. Clone deleted again. 'Soggy'.